The Baby Carrot Recall and What It Means with Kiley Harper Larsen, Food Safety Expert

Unpack the myths and realities of organic foods with us as we sit down with food safety expert Kiley Harper Larsen and food-inspired traveler Pooch Rivera. Have you ever wondered if organic produce truly offers a healthier or more environmentally friendly option? We promise to enlighten you as we explore these common misconceptions and dive into the recent organic carrot recall by Grimway Farms. Pooch gives us a taste of his latest culinary adventures, sharing intriguing experiences from the Pizza Tomorrow Summit and the World Food Championship in Indianapolis, including a glimpse into the future with a high-quality pizza vending machine.

In our engaging conversation, we tackle the pressing issue of food safety, discussing the intricate details of recalls and outbreaks. Kiley  offers her expertise on the E. coli contamination linked to organic carrots, and we dissect the rigorous food safety practices essential for consumer protection. Discover the obstacles faced by large-scale operations and the crucial role of stringent cleaning and sanitation protocols. We also examine the broader implications for food safety standards in organic farming and the ongoing challenges of maintaining these standards as pathogens continue to evolve.

Our episode wraps up with reflections on convenience versus safety in fast food choices, and the balance we all seek in our daily lives. We celebrate the success of our exciting venture, "Cover Your Assets," and extend heartfelt gratitude to everyone who has supported us on this journey. A special thank you goes out to Curt Hicken for his culinary brilliance and to Kiley for her professionalism. Join us as we savor the stories of culinary exploration and com

Introducing the SupraCut System - the automated solution that enhances safety, quality, and efficiency, cutting up to 120 perfect citrus wedges per minute, 6 times faster than manual. Patented tech delivers uniform slices, reducing waste and eliminating plastic, while the hygienic, contactless design lowers contamination and injuries, integrating seamlessly to transform your operations and improve profitability - get started at SupraCut.com and ask about risk-free trials.

Elevate your dining experience with RAK Porcelain USA! As the exclusive tableware brand for the Walk-In Talk Podcast, RAK combines exceptional craftsmanship with innovative design. Whether you’re a chef, a restaurant owner, or a food enthusiast, RAK’s high-quality porcelain products will enhance every meal. Discover the artistry of food presentation and make every dining occasion special. Visit rakporcelain.com today and see how RAK can transform your table

The following brands and companies help us continue supporting the food industry - have a look below! 

Chapters

• 0:50 Food Podcast Highlights Culinary Adventures
• 11:44 Organic Food Myths and Food Safety
• 21:54 Organic Food Safety Standards and Risks
• 32:01 Food Safety and Risk Awareness
• 44:25 Media Promotion and Culinary Success

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:51

hello food fam. This is the walk and talk podcast where you will find the perfect blend of food fun and cooking knowledge. I'm your host, carl fiodini. Welcome to the number one food podcast in the country. We're recording on site at ibages Studios, where food photography comes alive and I get to eat it. Here is a humble request to give us a follow on Instagram at walkandtalkshow, please and thank you. This week we have food safety expert and dear friend of the show, kylie Harper Larson. She is a badass. We'll be touching on the current recall affecting organic carrots and how this may expand into conventional produce as well. That's like everything that's out there grocery and food service and whatnot.

Speaker 1: 1:38

Putravera is on the line to talk about his food-inspired travels over the last few weeks. I was with him for some of those and I'll tell you what. Man we're on fire over here. Plus, I had my main man in the studio cooking up some amazing dishes, kurt Hicken, a chef by trade turned meat salesman. Kurt was on kitchen duty and he delivered and I mean he delivered, boy, I tell you what. These are some pretty dishes. John's photos of the dishes, naturally, are stunning. Man, you're gonna. I can't wait for you guys to see these. These are gonna be B-A-utiful. Let's welcome Pooch and Kylie to the program. Welcome y'all.

Speaker 2: 2:20

Hello.

Speaker 1: 2:21

Thanks for having us. Oh man, I tell you what so Pooch my man. Pooch the Pooch, sean Rivera boy, how you. Oh man, I tell you what so pooch my man. Pooch the pooch, sean rivera boy, how you.

Speaker 3: 2:32

Doing man I'm doing very well, man very well. Just I just finished eating some baliadas at this real, this new honduran restaurant here in uh mandeville, louisiana. Got the invite to come try that out.

Speaker 1: 2:43

So just doing the best, baby always eating all right, so know, there's been a lot of action here over the last couple of weeks. You and I did, we did that event at JetBlue, we did the Pizza Summit, pizza Tomorrow Summit. You know that's part of the FRLA show also. And then you were at the WFC man talk about it. I mean, everything was pretty amazing.

Speaker 3: 3:09

Everything was pretty amazing. So you know, obviously we started off at the restaurant show in Florida. I went the day before you went to help out Great friend and colleague, friend of the show, jennifer Hill Booker. She was doing a cooking demo there. So obviously you know she and I are two peas in a pod, so I went and helped her out. And then you came the next day and we started our escapade on trying different things foods and whatnot, an interview and everybody, great, great show, I mean.

Speaker 1: 3:37

Glenn was amazing. The gentleman who puts the whole.

Speaker 3: 3:39

Thing on Jerry Lynn, all of the above. Hopefully some great things will be coming from that. And then you know that rolled into the whole JetBlue beat Bobby Flay thing and that was fun. That will be coming out pretty soon on our platforms along with JetBlue's platform. And what did we not do? Ate so much good food it's almost like I'm still in a food coma. Then flew from Orlando to Indianapolis for the World Food Championships. It was the first year ever that I was in.

Speaker 3: 4:08

Indianapolis so cool, the funnest time Hung out with everyone. Tina from Rack Porcelain, aj Brianna from Metro, met some new great friends from Mundial Knives who hopefully we'll be working with them soon, and I want to actually and you know what I forgot all about at the Pizza Summit. We met Lori White of pizza drop and that was probably the thing that moved me out of the whole three week food escapade. It was being able to order a pizza from a vending machine that is top notch quality, as if you were getting, as if you know you were getting it from in, in, in, you know in.

Speaker 3: 4:47

Italy. I mean, it was just that good, that much quality and that much brilliance put into the innovation of that. I think that's going to go far. But, man, you tell me how did you feel about it?

Speaker 1: 4:58

So let me start with this pizza machine. First of all, it's a vending machine for pizza, like hot, fresh sliced pizza. It's amazing and it's about the size of a volkswagen, this thing, it's a. It's a fairly large unit, maybe a little smaller than that, but it's a fairly large unit holds like six, 76 pizzas and you, you order it like you were, you know, pushing buttons, and there's a pizza I loved. What was really amazing is that the pizza tasted really good. That was the shocker. I'm not shocked that there's, you know, a machine that can do this, the software, the, you know technology I'm not that, you know, okay, we're living in that age, but the fact is it tasted really good and that makes this thing special. I think that's where it makes it special.

Speaker 1: 5:47

Also special was, you know this, this thing, we, the event that we did at JetBlue. That was really cool because that was for a little girl who had, who had cancer and and she's in remission, she's beating it and it was just really an amazing event. And JetBlue is terrific. What a company. Because this was an employee's child. So they did this, you know, for them and it was really special. We, you know, we were able to participate and and we're you know, we're blessed for that. I don't know man, this wfc. I wish I was there. I missed it. My man, I wish I could have.

Speaker 3: 6:21

Wfc was the best it's ever been, best it's ever been. Class act. Ike mcleod, you know, always puts a class act together. Indianapolis, what a great guest city. What a great, I mean what a great city. You know, leaving orland, living in new orleans great hospitality city, going to orlando, which is even, you know, debatable, even better hospitality city, and then going to indianapolis with, you know, I don't want to say I have was low expectations, but I'm leaving new orleans, orlando, and then I'm in Indianapolis. Indianapolis is a class act.

Speaker 3: 6:50

The culinary scene there, man, I tell you what it really inspired me. It re-inspired my romance with the restaurant industry and with just the culinary industry in itself. I really there was a couple of times I was like pooch, don't do it, don't try to open a restaurant here. Cause I really said to a couple of times to myself, like man, I would love to open up a restaurant here. It is such a great town and everyone is so inviting.

Speaker 3: 7:22

And to the international, and they really made WFC international, not only because of all the you know now, they had, I think. I think it was 37 different countries competing this year. But Indianapolis is surprisingly such an international city and you know they pride themselves on being the crossroads of America, and they truly are. And with that too, let me shout out Dubai, shout out to Dubai for winning the burger, the hamburger. It was great to visit with Tarek and Ola and their whole team of so many people that they brought from Dubai to compete in this year's competition. It's truly becoming a world event and it's always been a class act, but this year it was just so well flowed, so well streamlined, great sponsors, metro, rac Mundial. I had a blast man. I cannot wait till next year.

Speaker 1: 8:03

Wow, I guess we're done here. Yeah, I couldn't say it better myself. All right, so you're, you're, you're, you're becoming this food media traveler now. You know, under that walk and talk badge, the banner, and you're doing a terrific job. I just wanted to give you props on air for that.

Speaker 1: 8:22

I appreciate you, absolutely, Absolutely. We're doing big things and there's there's more to come in that whole profile, if you will. All right, I cannot continue to look to my right and and and see our guests just anxiously awaiting to be introduced to the program. Okay, Kylie, how the hell are you?

Speaker 2: 8:46

I'm finer than frog. Hair split three ways. Wow, that's something.

Speaker 1: 8:50

I mean, I've not quite ever heard that before. I wasn't really sure how to react to that, if I'm to be honest.

Speaker 2: 8:55

I kind of have that impression on most people. I'm okay with it.

Speaker 1: 8:58

So you got to hang out with us the whole day today.

Speaker 2: 9:01

I did.

Speaker 1: 9:02

And.

Speaker 2: 9:03

And I think I already said to you why don't I just come up here and do this on Thursdays?

Speaker 1: 9:09

True story. I mean, she did mention like hey, you don't have to stop in, carl, I'll just take care of this, and I was like, well, that's kind of my gig, you know what I mean. But it's fine, I'm not mad at you.

Speaker 2: 9:19

Most overqualified dishwasher you found.

Speaker 1: 9:23

So you've done real good, kid. You've done real good, kid. You've done real good, see, all right. So check it out. We had a great day today. You know kurt hicken who is. First he was a, he was a friend, he was a, a client down in south florida of mine when I was in produce. He's a chef by trade. He now works for peninsula food service as a salesman guy does a terrific, terrific job and I had him come in today and he cooked up four meat dishes. Oh my gosh, I tell you what.

Speaker 2: 10:00

I mean, Kylie, how amazing, Purely an experience to be had in front of you. That's what I have to say. And I told you you should bottle the smells.

Speaker 1: 10:12

Yes, yes, you certainly did.

Speaker 2: 10:14

And I think it could be Cologne de Karl, but that's just a working title.

Speaker 1: 10:19

Cologne de Karl, I think that would be more like Oodie Toilette, right? Is that what you're trying to say? Is that All right? Honestly, the photos that came out of today's production it's stupid and I can't wait to get them out. John, we got to pick one for the podcast cover, just saying episode cover for today. So, kylie, there's something big happening right now in the news and it has to do with carrots Talk about it.

Speaker 2: 10:47

Well, you know, we got Thanksgiving coming up and carrots are typically on almost everybody's menu in a multitude of different ways. And currently, right now, Grimway Farms, which is one of the single largest growers, manufacturers and processors of both organic and conventional carrots, has a truly massive recall going on right now.

Speaker 1: 11:11

What misconceptions would a consumer have about organic farming versus you know, you know and and education like how does this work? Because those carrots are baby carrots and those are processed carrots. Those aren't, like you know, baby carrots peeled that still have the little nub top on them. These are the actual little nub, little peeled carrots. So those go through a processing procedure and they're bagged and they're shipped out, you know, mostly for kids and you know, grab them or whatever. How does this happen?

Speaker 2: 11:44

Well, first and foremost, there's a lot of misconceptions that consumers and, quite honestly, people in the industry, in the food industry, have. Number one organic does use pesticides. They just use organic approved pesticides. A lot of people think that organic foods are healthier by nature, and there's been time and time again studies done by both academic and research institutes through the government. They're not healthier naturally Organic farming. Another myth is that it is better for the environment and unfortunately they still farm in a lot of the same ways as conventional farmers do, using the same fossil fuels and quite often having to use many more acres to produce the amount that is used. Another thing is that they think that organic farms aren't large farms, and when we see the need for organic especially with baby carrots, which is probably one of the leaders in the organic space besides tomatoes that is typically done by really large entities like Grimway Farms. These myths kind of proliferate and you'll see that people really don't understand the differences, and then they're making decisions based on feelings and emotions rather than facts.

Speaker 1: 13:07

Right, based on feelings and emotions rather than facts. Right. And in this case, you know like a lot of times E coli will come from lettuce or something like that, and it's usually processed lettuce, cut lettuce, chopped lettuce, something that's you know, gets thrown in a bag and you know it's in the in the freezer or not, the cooler section or whatever. That's different. It's not pulled out of the ground with E coli. Right? Explain a little bit about that.

Speaker 2: 13:34

Well, the issue at hand is this is a type of E coli that they found in these organic fresh carrots and it's a type of shiga toxin-producing E coli. And for those that are listening in that, just don't wake up in the middle of the night and say, oh, tell me more about shiga toxin-producing E coli. You just simply need to know that it's highly pathogenic and when it is taken in, it has a high instance that it will cause illness, injury or death in the people that take it in. If you have a compromised immune system. And unfortunately, when we're making smarter decisions about nutrition, we often look towards eating more fresh roots and vegetables when the E coli is probably coming from but the FDA hasn't made an official statement yet but this particular type typically comes from the stomachs of cattle. And how did it make it there? More than likely, it made it there through either irrigation water. It could have made it through a bioaerosol, which means that the bacteria drifted in the air, or it could have happened through a cross-contamination event, maybe a harvester that was improperly cleaned and sanitized, but regardless, it made its way into these bags.

Speaker 2: 14:55

A lot of times, when we're talking about processing and highly processed items like baby carrots. I mean, guys, these baby carrots just don't come out with tiny baby hands being harvested and they are highly processed. They start out with really, really big carrots. We have to factor in cleaning and sanitation practices and I will have to say that, generally speaking, for the amount of produce that Grimway Farms produces, they really aren't in the news. A lot Food safety issues can happen all the time, but they tend to happen more and more when they have touched many hands and many surfaces, and so when you're looking at fresh fruits and vegetables being safe or not, it really has nothing to do with organics or conventional. It has everything to do with how many times it's been handled by human hands or it's touched surfaces that need cleaning and sanitation.

Speaker 1: 15:51

Right, and typically these things happen. You know, and again I'm not saying where this occurred, this particular instance, but traditionally you will find it happening in a processing center where there is equipment, blades cutting, where there's supposed to be protocols and sanitation and the cleaning and breakdown and rest time. This way everybody can do the proper cleaning and all that stuff and it typically happens there. So everybody can do the proper cleaning and all that stuff and it typically happens there. I think it's rare to see it, that it's happening from the farmhand who's you know harvesting, you know, I mean it can happen and I'm sure it does. But my opinion and it is opinion is that it happens more in the processing plants.

Speaker 2: 16:33

That's typically where it gets spread. When we look for where it actually came from, that's where people, personnel and products really are factored in. We call those the three Ps, and we have to look at how people move from, say, the farm to the facility, how the product moves from the farm to the facility, and then how the packaging as well moves from the product to the facility. And typically what we'll do is we'll find that it may have originated elsewhere, found a really nice habitat where it could grow like this E coli, and then there's probably a piece of equipment that I would theorize, that is probably improperly cleaned and sanitized, and what we have to really think about is that humans are still involved in the operations and the management and we can't be calibrated. That's true.

Speaker 1: 17:30

So when you're talking about USDA versus FDA and who's in charge of what? As of this moment, this is still a recall. Isn't this the largest recall?

Speaker 2: 17:42

It is going to be probably one of the largest recalls that we see, because of the amount of pounds of carrots that are involved and the fact that it's not just in consumer packaging, it's involved in food service packaging. Consumer packaging, it's involved in food service packaging and for those people that are listening in, because we are industry folks, food service means what goes into your restaurants, what goes into your caterers, what goes into your nursing homes and your jails and your institutions like hospitals. And when we look at the amount of pounds, you typically buy a half pound or a pound of carrots. When you're a private entity, well, when you're in food service, you buy five, 10, 25 pound bags. So there's a lot of carrots that are involved in this, plus the amount of time.

Speaker 2: 18:29

We're not just talking about a one week production window here. Some of these go all the way back to August and continue through November. And, as a consumer, one of the things that I can tell you is I love a good BOGO. Some of these go all the way back to August and continue through November. And, as a consumer, one of the things that I can tell you is I love a good BOGO Plug to Publix, because they're my BOGO friends and I love to come and buy. One of the things is baby carrots. I'll stick one fresh bag in the fridge and I take. What do I do with the other bag? I put it in the freezer. So we want to make sure right off the bat, anybody that's got carrots in their freezer from their lace BOGO trip check those and just make sure that they're not part of this recall.

Speaker 1: 19:09

But I don't buy organic. I don't have anything to worry about.

Speaker 2: 19:14

Well, one of the misnomers is that organic operations are only organic. Most organic operations operate in the conventional realm in one of two ways they either farm organically and they farm conventionally, or fast fact for those of you who think, when you purchase conventional products, that you're not purchasing organic, you very well may be, because if they weren't hitting a price point and they had that produce to sell and it was ready, organic can be sold as conventional.

Speaker 1: 19:49

Yes, you know it's funny, I don't have to go back and look, but I'm thinking had to be half of the last 10 years. For Thanksgiving there's been some sort of massive recall Lettuce chives. You know it's been like this every year almost, it seems.

Speaker 2: 20:09

Yes, and there's actually some research that's been done on that, and in the spring and the fall, e coli tends to spread worse. We don't know why, though, yet, but the virulence of spring and fall production tends to coincide with production of agricultural crops like fruits and vegetables, and here we find ourselves right at Thanksgiving and right at Christmas.

Speaker 1: 20:39

So talk about the difference between the USDA and the FDA. Who's responsible for what? How come these things are happening, and it feels like we know there's oversight, but where is it?

Speaker 2: 20:51

Very good question there. Well, the United States has a lot of oversight. First of all, the USDA certifies organics, but the FDA actually has what we call the legal purview for food safety. So that's under the Food Safety Modernization Act that was enacted January, the 4th of 2011, under the Obama administration, and it's finally come into its full and complete understanding where we have to be in compliance in the industry. So what that essentially means is that the organic standards that are written, whether you are an organic grower or a handler, is part of a third-party certification program. It has legal standards, but when we're talking about food safety, food safety is under a different regulatory division. The FDA and both divisions work together in a program called the Center for Food Safety and Applied Nutrition, cfsan, but they do not regulate together.

Speaker 1: 21:54

Okay, I mean, there's a lot of information here and we're going to try to pack a lot into this episode, but I know that this is going to. This will be like a walk and talk mini series, if you will. So what is it? So, all right, it's, it's still. It's still a recall, and so there's a different in terms of you know the definitions of recall versus outbreak and the implications that those have on public health. So what is that? One person, one death, equals recall, but two deaths, you know, equal outbreak.

Speaker 2: 23:07

That's right, it's a legal definition, and so, as we stand right now, there's been only one death, an elderly individual, but there has been 39 total illnesses, and of those, 16 have been hospitalized, and one of those was the death.

Speaker 1: 23:24

So if I'm going to editorialize this a little bit, right, I don't want anyone getting sick and I don't want anyone, certainly you know, losing life. For the millions of people who are eating carrots and for the however many millions of pounds of carrots that are out there, that seems pretty small, considering, you know. Again, not saying it's a good thing, but at the end of the day, I don't know, these are scary words.

Speaker 2: 23:54

There are.

Speaker 2: 23:55

What you have to realize is that Grimway Farms actually voluntarily chose to recall this, rather than the FDA forcing its hand at it, and so what they have chosen to do is, more than likely, widen the breadth of what could be implicated and what is not.

Speaker 2: 24:20

That they had as tested positive, and they've made that statement that they had in their possession.

Speaker 2: 24:29

However, what we do know is that the FDA does have positive confirmation from 26 people out of 27 that they have been able to interview.

Speaker 2: 24:40

That's, 96% of people interviewed say that they have eaten fresh carrots that were organic baby carrots within the last week before they got sick, and that is probably one of the biggest newsmakers in food safety in the produce realm that we've seen is we are getting much better at understanding and reporting and detection, and, as I was talking to our chef earlier about this, when you cast the net wide and you go looking for trouble, so to speak, you're more apt to find it. So, as far as the United States is concerned, we really have a great food supply that is safe and it's essential to national security. But what we also have to understand is we have empowered our regulatory agencies to make sure that we have an active detection network so that we can respond back to those needs and we can keep people safe. But what we need to understand is that with this particular recall, we're not just talking about things that are labeled Grimway Farms and GF. We're talking about things that are 18 different retailers are involved in this. We're talking about over 30 brand names are included in this and there's at least 18 states.

Speaker 1: 26:06

So you have organic foods and with organic foods you have a change, many changes to how you execute farming, the tactics, the processes, whatever. Is there risks associated with buying and consuming organic foods? And before you answer that, I you know, I've been in the produce. I was in the produce industry for 20 plus years and you know if, if it's from the united states and it's stamped organic, I tend to go with that.

Speaker 1: 26:47

I am skeptical, I've always been skeptical about organics coming from outside of the country, and that isn't any disrespect to anyone in particular, any countries or whatever it's just I know that our organic standards are pretty high trees or whatever it's just I know that our organic standards are pretty high. But I also know that when you, when you're farming, if you're, if you're used to getting, you know, let's just say it's never a hundred percent. But if you're used to getting a hundred percent yield and now you're doing organics and and you're only getting 20% yield, well, that stinks. Number one, it's more expensive. But also, now you're you're fighting more pests. You can't use the same sort of chemical-based products. Everything changes. But how does that make it let's quote-unquote maybe more risky or more dangerous to consume?

Speaker 2: 27:35

Well, let me just go ahead and say that anytime you consume any foods, you're taking a risk, whether it's fresh or in that fresh realm, if it is organic or it's conventional. We have to realize that what we put into our mouth can be risky, but we have to understand what risks are inherent and unfortunately, science says that organics tend to be involved in more pronounced, larger outbreaks and recalls. That's just the numbers. The next thing is is that the organic standards demand that only organically approved fertilizers and pesticides be used. So that means that we have more natural and that means biofertilizers and bio-derived fertilizers. And for those of you who may not be following me, I'm talking about poop, poop from some form or fashion, dried poop, wet poop that have to be enacted, that if that type of poop fertilizer or biofertilizer is used, that we can safely plant into that ground. Or if someone is organically growing in aquaponic situations, how maybe that fish meal that they are using when it can be applied and when it can't be applied?

Speaker 2: 29:01

There's also pesticides that I just want to state again. They're used, they're just organically approved or organically derived. And what does that mean? That just means that they're natural and a standards board that the United States Department of Agriculture has formulated between a bunch of academics, a lot of researchers, people in the industry. I actually know a couple of people who serve on this board that they look at and they review and they make sure that these standards help protect consumers and also protect what they consider to be organic standards. But pesticides are used and unfortunately they tend to be used two to three times more often than conventional production. Now I will say that with full disclosure. I am a conventional producer, but I am a very cautious conventional producer On the side. You know, I pay for my farming habit with consulting and, with that being said, I don't make decisions about our farm with my husband without looking at what is the best to use. I use both conventional and organic products on my operation because the number one reason is it's best for the environment at that time.

Speaker 1: 30:20

I feel like you just heard a lot of people's feelings.

Speaker 2: 30:23

I unfortunately don't get paid to say nice things.

Speaker 1: 30:28

Yes. So I mean, there's a lot of butthurt people out there right now. Whoever just heard that you know you just destroyed their whole you know paradigm. All right, so then, what is the difference between the regulatory systems here in the United States versus you know other countries? You know why is there? Why would there potentially be some sort of disparity in quality?

Speaker 2: 30:56

Well, one of the main reasons is because we have local and state governments in the United States that are actively involved in making sure that farmers in their area are following both local and state laws, as well as federal laws. Agriculture, some county that they actively work to make sure that, through visual observation and inspection, that we are being checked. One of the main things to really understand is that foreign product less than 2% of it is actively inspected and fewer than that is sampled when it comes across our borders or is flown into our airports and our ports. So when we're looking at the active amount of produce that's coming through those ways, we actually have a really incredible surveillance program that's going on, not to say that it doesn't need quite a lot of oversight and that there needs to be some revamping.

Speaker 2: 32:02

Right now, for instance, there is a complete reorganization of the FDA going on. It started October the 1st and what we may see with this particular recall that's been going on, as well as the McDonald's onion recall. That's right, I didn't even hear about that. Yeah, the McDonald's onion recall is happening with Taylor Farms right now and that's the reason why people didn't have a quarter pounder available to come through for over two weeks, and I don't know about you, but again highly processed product that wasn't organic, product that was conventional I mean, yes, I'm hurt right now.

Speaker 2: 32:39

I mean, I didn't even, I'm hurt by that should I have called you and said don't go through't go through the McDonald's drive-thru and get a McDonald's. So I'm on the road a lot.

Speaker 1: 32:48

Listen, I eat very. I eat a lot of good, healthy stuff at home. Okay, I mean, that's the truth. Wifey cooks, my mother-in-law cooks, everybody cooks really healthy, so I'm great. But I'm on the road a lot and I just don to pack a lunch or you know, sit down, have a nice sit down, you know lunch or something. So I mean I had a drive through and because, so just for reference, when you're driving and eating at the same time, the cleanest experience is McDonald's. Everything it's all neatly packaged, you can take a bite, you order cheeseburgers and you're good to go, Like you, you can eat it. It's not going to drip all over your shirt, pants the whole nine yards. So there's a process for that. There's, there is. I have a process for eating while driving and mickey d's is my go-to.

Speaker 2: 33:36

Okay it's because they have the best rewards app for that I don't even. I don't use the app.

Speaker 1: 33:41

I don't care about the app, I don't need, I don't points. I feel terrible that I eat this stuff. To begin with I don't need, I don't need to be rewarded for it, but I do consume it and it is what it is. So that kind of hurt me a little bit.

Speaker 2: 33:55

And it's actively going on. And what I can tell you is Taylor Farms can't point to the grower right now. I'm actively checking this every single day because my firm actually represents some onion growers and one of the things that we know in the produce industry is we all buy from each other.

Speaker 1: 34:17

I, I, I listen, I've sold I couldn't put a number, a dollar amount on on the amount of Taylor farms products in my tenure in produce. Okay, if there is such a huge outfit and by and large they do a great job, I will say that one one, one side of the country does better than the other side of the country in terms of what you know their deliverables. But hey, you know I'm not going to get into that. They, they all, do a great job and I'm not picking sides and I'm not pointing fingers. But damn, taylor farms, they've, they've had it rough the last couple of years, man, like they've been getting hit constantly.

Speaker 2: 35:23

Fires everything. They're one of the largest entities, just like Grimway Farms and, fun fact, you know those are both family-owned operations that have a long tenure. But we have seen them and their families make active purchases of other farms and processing plants and they have grown.

Speaker 2: 35:43

Hard to control that Don't hate the player hate the game, but the game keeps changing and that's one of the things. As we think we know enough about microflora, okay, Bacteria, viruses and pathogens and parasites. They keep changing. You know, Darwin told us that survival of the fittest. Well, we're changing our practices, but what's outpacing that is how pathogens are able to infiltrate into our bodies.

Speaker 1: 36:11

Are we supposed to trust organics now?

Speaker 2: 36:14

So here's what I would say you have to trust what you understand to be research, truth. Okay, and that is kind of a deep subject, you need to know where your food's coming from. So shame on you that you didn't know that Taylor Farms was producing those micro-diced onions.

Speaker 1: 36:33

Yeah, I know there's like three companies that own everything. You know what I mean. It's all related, it's all crossed over, paths are crossing everywhere.

Speaker 3: 36:45

You know what I mean.

Speaker 1: 36:48

I don't know where McDonald's diced onions are coming from, but I eat them and they're delicious. I don't know what to tell you.

Speaker 2: 36:54

But what you need to know is that everything that you're putting this goes back to what I said everything that you put into your mouth has a risk. Okay, mouth has a risk. Okay, so we can't finger point at the fresh produce or the fresh product necessarily always being the thing that's going to make us sick. It's just the fact that because we don't tend to cook it as much means we don't have a kill step. Okay, many times, if you'll think about your chicken that you're eating on your soup, your healthy plate, most days, 50% of chicken breasts come with active salmonella on it. Do you even think about that? Or do you just say, well, I'm going to cook it. Well, the unfortunate thing is, you didn't cook that onion because it wouldn't give you the crispness of the flavor. When they were looking at that with the focus groups Again, when they're reformulating all of the flavor. When they were looking at that with the focus groups again, when they're reformulating all of the different recipes well, you don't want mushy onions on there.

Speaker 1: 37:52

I mean, I guess we're all gamblers, right? Yeah you gotta know when to hold them, when to fold them, you know I would just say that we're decently running with an unknown risk.

Speaker 2: 38:05

Some people blindly and those of us who eat, breathe and sleep and wake up at two o'clock in the morning and are checking social media for our clients to make sure they're not actively involved now in a recall or an outbreak. We're making a little more educated guesses. But I still am consuming fresh fruits and vegetables every single day. I just understand the risk a little bit better than the layman.

Speaker 1: 38:35

So, in light of the recent food safety challenges that are out there right now, what advice are you going to give the consumer?

Speaker 2: 38:43

Number one know where your food comes from. Number two try to consume local foods. That means that it is going to come with microflora that identifies with what's already in your gut, so it's less likely fun fact to make you sick. The next thing is is that it's going to get to you fresher, so if it did have something bad on it, it's less likely to be as toxic.

Speaker 2: 39:06

The next thing is if you've got to consume produce for a particular event, especially that has come from food service and catering and it's been out on a buffet, you just want to look at items that have the ability to have, say, a vinaigrette if you're doing a salad, because if you serve something with a vinaigrette, you're doing a salad, because if you serve something with a vinaigrette, it has acidity and it can actually take a bacterial load down. So if you're making a choice on a salad buffet, choose a vinaigrette over that ranch dressing and that kind of hurts me in the heart because you know I'm a deep South gal and I believe that ranch dressing came from Jesus Christ, but quality ranch dressing, let me say there Amen to that, but that's one of the main things.

Speaker 2: 39:51

The other thing is and I'm a bit of a hater, okay, and for those of you that now are like, oh, I'm about to shut this off I'm also going to say I don't eat cantaloupe. Cantaloupe is so risky. I make my husband eat it outside. He chooses to eat it in the garage. I don't let it come in my house. It has so many risks. And let me just tell you that when we have to test it in the laboratory, we have to cook it, and cooked cantaloupe is similar. When I smell it, you immediately can identify what a dead rat smells like. You never forget it. Cooked cantaloupe is that to me. So if I see a melon bowl, of mixed melons and it has cantaloupe in it, I don't eat it.

Speaker 1: 40:38

That's crazy talk. Well, let me say it like this when they're in season, you know, and they're from, you know, domestic, in season, local, I love them. The bricks is hot, they're sweet and delicious, they're fantastic. I I suppose maybe are you referring to those little beauties are you talking about, like?

Speaker 2: 41:00

generalizations. They're all netted melons, they all grow on the the ground. They have a pH that makes it quite conducive for bacterial growth and rarely is a cantaloupe consumed all at once. So what happens is you slice through it with your questionable knife on your questionable cutting board and then you put it, maybe maybe in a bag, maybe okay, or maybe you wrap it with your saran wrap and stick it back in to grow bacteria.

Speaker 1: 41:36

Don't smile at me after you say something like that.

Speaker 2: 41:39

That's well. I'll just remind you of the psychological principle that if I'm crazy, then so is everybody else, since you're establishing the norm to yourself.

Speaker 1: 41:50

Look, I, I think I'm winning in all of this because you know, is that like a Charlie? Sheen winning no, my gosh, no, no man, tiger blood, yeah, I don't think so. Charlie Sheen, right, that was what you're talking about, so think so. Transition, right, I was gonna talk about. So, yeah, I mean no, but I a lot of vegetables get cooked in my house and I avoid them all.

Speaker 2: 42:11

I'm really into the proteins and the good proteins, so there, I don't really think that there's necessarily a bad protein, even if it comes with a little bit of fat. Now I will say, for those of you that are like writing notes down now, because now I'm enemy of the state for organics, I will say that there is one positive that I found in some of my research. You know, because I tried to be prepared for today's podcast, that organic proteins have been shown to actually have leaner fat content than conventional proteins, and that's necessarily because organic proteins, most of the time, they are consuming grasses rather than feeds that contain lots of corn and weed and other things.

Speaker 1: 43:04

It's just like game. It's just like deer and boar and stuff like that. It's very lean. All of that bison, all that stuff is very lean simply because of what they're eating.

Speaker 2: 43:17

Yes, and I will say for a plug, with Kurt's lamb chop today from Peninsular Food Service. One thing that I discovered because I had questions as I was smelling the savoriness that was emanating from the kitchen is that Colorado lamb, which the lamb chop is actually is a leaner protein than the Australian lamb and it's actually better for the environment. So I read that and I thought okay, that's great.

Speaker 1: 43:47

Well, I mean, I'll tell you what, in terms of Peninsula, I mean, they hooked up today Creekstone Farm, the beef part, Creekstone the ribeye oh my God, Everything was so delicious Like melt in your mouth.

Speaker 2: 44:03

It was an honor to hold the light for you as you videoed him and you. Let me smell that for free. I'm serious. For those of you listening to this? He could sell tickets to the smells that are coming.

Speaker 1: 44:19

I would purchase, I would buy, I'm a buyer, I'm in, I'm a customer. Baby, you know what I'm saying? All right, why don't? How do people find you?

Speaker 2: 44:31

How do they find me? Well, find me on Instagram, got a new business called Cover your Assets. I'm still the ag safety lady. I'm just into covering more assets these days and they can also find me on Facebook, linkedin and, as a couple of my customers say, just point the bat signal towards the sky.

Speaker 1: 44:50

Right, but that I show up. No, okay, okay, I thought that was drum beats, it was, it could have been All right. So listen, today was really awesome, john, you know we we did a lot today. You were nervous about this whole thing. You're like, how are we going to pull this all off? I said because we're bad asses. That's why, okay, you know. Thanks again, peninsula for the grub. It was awesome. Kurt, you did a terrific job today. Tasted delicious, looks great. The photos are awesome. Kylie, you're like the most professional person I know. I just want to put that out there. All right, are you coming?

Speaker 2: 45:27

back soon. You're going to do this Absolutely Anytime you ask me to come.

Speaker 1: 45:30

All right, beautiful. Thank you kindly.

Speaker 2: 45:36

We are out Sorry.