NY Hotdog King: Dan Rossi - Street Food Vendor Life

Have you ever wondered what makes street food so captivating? Join us as Carl Fiadini takes a nostalgic trip down memory lane, savoring the iconic "dirty water" hot dogs of New York City with his Uncle Anthony. Our culinary journey continues with a visit from Jeffrey Schlissel, who introduces a tantalizing New England-inspired menu featuring Kuni Kuni pork, apple cider donuts, and a unique chili made with hot hatch chilies and bourbon bacon. We also celebrate an exciting milestone—being finalists for the People's Choice Podcast Awards, a testament to our beloved listeners.

Meet Dan Rossi, a true symbol of resilience, who earned the title "hot dog king" of New York City. From an unexpected start with a friend's hot dog cart to building the largest hot dog cart company in the city, Dan's journey is one of determination and innovation. His story reveals the grit required to navigate legal battles, homelessness, and the struggle to secure prime vending spots—all while paving the way for fellow veterans to thrive. Through Dan's experience, we uncover the broader struggles and triumphs of street vendors, highlighting the importance of community support and advocacy.

As we explore the world of street vending, we tackle the pressing issues that vendors face today. From the deceptive practices of some vendors to the lack of enforcement against illegal vending, we s

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Chapters

• 1:04 Street Food Memories
• 9:17 Hot Dog Vendor Success Story
• 14:40 Street Vendor Location and Quality
• 20:41 Illegal Street Vending Crisis in NYC
• 29:34 Street Vending Struggles and Legal Battles
• 40:35 Supporting Veteran Street Vendors
• 49:30 Hot Dog Vendor Networking Conversation

Transcript

Speaker 1: 1:04

Hello Food Fam. This is the Walk Talk podcast where you'll find the perfect blend of food fun and cooking knowledge. I'm your host, carl Fiatini. Welcome to the number one podcast in the country. Well, number one podcast in three countries. It's a pretty amazing thing happening right now in our world. We're recording on-site at Ibis Images Studios, where food photography comes alive and I get to eat it. Here's a humble request to give us a follow on Instagram at walkandshow, please and thank you. I'm into quality smoked fish dips and spreads. I know you are too. Check out our friends over at Crab Island Seafood Company. Visit them at crabislandseafooddipcom and order yours today. Last week we had Chef Brandon Clark, creative mind behind Hot Sauce, darling Clark and Hopkins super inspiring episode. Go back and listen up.

Speaker 1: 2:00

I lived in Brooklyn as a child. There are many things I miss and fond memories I cherish with my family, kind of like dunking the bread into my grandmother's sauce pot and all the homemade old school Italian food during the holidays. I also miss L&B pizza in Bensonhurst. It's my all-time favorite. But you know what else I miss Street cart hot dogs.

Speaker 1: 2:26

To spend time with me, my Uncle Anthony would say hey, carlucci, let's go take a ride in the car, we'd go to Radio Shack or Crazy Eddie's and then, inevitably, we'd stop for some dirty water hot dogs. It was an experience the snap of the hot dog skin, all the flavors, washing it down with a yoo-hoo or a mellow yellow, just standing on the corner and eating, talking, listening to his stories and topics that, frankly, were probably inappropriate for a seven-year-old. That's the way it was back then. These moments were indeed special to me. Who would think that behind the veil of my happy, nostalgic food memories are the actual struggles of what it takes to be a food vendor on the streets of New York? Today we're going to dive into a remarkable journey of our guest, dan Rossi, New York's hot dog king. It's a fascinating story, but first let's welcome Jefferson back to the studio. What's cooking, baby? We missed you last week.

Speaker 2: 3:23

Yeah, I had some fun up over in New Hampshire. It kind of inspired. The menu for today Reached out to one of our farmers and someone that supports us, vicki Webster, over at Happy Tales, and she gave us some Kuni Kuni pork and we have a pork tenderloin and a pork chop that we're going to do Two different ones, since it is about to start being apple season up in New England. I was like, hmm, I read this menu. It was funny as anything Cause. Keith was like, hey, remember where we got those cider donuts? It's right on the way. We ended up getting it on Sunday we ended up going back up to we forgot a catering rental unit, just one box, one and a half hour away, three hour drive to go pick the box up.

Speaker 1: 4:06

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 4:07

Catering, love it Hashtag adventure.

Speaker 2: 4:10

Yeah right, well, we made the best of it because we got some cider donuts. So it's an apple cider donut, apple cider, brined pork chop with a apple cider crumble, with blue cheese, candied pecans and braised greens. Then the pork tenderloin is going to be grilled figs, prosciutto, burrata, blistered tomatoes, pickled fennel with roasted potatoes. And then I wanted to do cause it's getting a little bit fall, like in other parts of the country besides Florida, cause it's still 95%, 95 humidity I ended up doing a chili, but it's with hot hatch chilies which are from new mexico, some of her chicken. That is just absolutely phenomenal. We're gonna do some pickled avocado and then garlic chili crisp and then bourbon bacon to finish that off, to give it some depth and complexity.

Speaker 1: 4:59

Yeah, what was in that jar that? That is the chili crisp that I make. Yeah, I wanted to just like start to give it some depth and complexity. Yeah, what was in that jar? That is the chili crisp that I make. Yeah, I wanted to just like start spooning it right there.

Speaker 2: 5:05

Yeah, so mine actually has cinnamon, star, anise, shallots, garlic, chili paste, chili sorry chili flakes a little touch of gogu jang and also thin soy on it.

Speaker 1: 5:18

I didn't eat last night Good In anticipation for today and I didn't have anything for breakfast. So I just want you to know it's going to be serious today.

Speaker 2: 5:28

That's starving Marvin, yeah, totally starving and I was just listening to finishing the podcast from last week and I love the sandwich reference. How John likes to do sandwiches. There's no sandwiches today. How John likes to do sandwiches.

Speaker 1: 5:41

There's no sandwiches today. I tell you what it was. A great week. Last week was fun, man. We had a really good time.

Speaker 2: 5:48

Maybe I should go out of town more often.

Speaker 1: 5:50

You should probably you know what get out of here, kid Scram, you know, listen. By the way, today we're going to be shooting our acceptance speech for the People's Choice Awards for the podcast category, and it's not that we've won anything, but we're in the finals and we have to actually shoot this in order when we find out actually who does win and if it is us, we'll have it prepared Super stoked about this.

Speaker 2: 6:18

It's an amazing feat. I mean, think about how many 5 million listeners, down to 20,000 listeners they're going to pick the people's choice. And there's nine other podcasts, including us would be 10.

Speaker 1: 6:29

Yeah, I mean whittle down to 10, we're in that final 10. I don't know, man.

Speaker 2: 6:33

It's an honor just being mentioned in those different podcasts.

Speaker 1: 6:35

Yeah, I'm trying to figure out if I'm going to have you know, like on our email, you know, signature, you know if we don't win.

Speaker 2: 6:43

Nominated. Nominated right yeah, why not? I don't know, I mean, it's, it's, it's, that's a huge feat.

Speaker 1: 6:50

So stoked, equally as excited, to jump into the food today. I'm ready to rock and roll, man.

Speaker 2: 6:59

Well, too bad, we don't have dirty hot dogs.

Speaker 1: 7:00

So you, I know, I know. That was a couple weeks ago, you know, as I was writing the monologue out and I did that early this morning, about three in the morning, and I was like you know what, this is what I was feeling and I actually it brought back like that actual snap of the dog canishes, like all that stuff, man.

Speaker 2: 7:22

I really I miss it. It's been a long time. It's funny. You mentioned knishes and somebody was talking to me about something. Believe it or not, I think they're trending because universal studios actually sells potato knish no kidding. Street food no kidding yeah, in orlando I was amazed, especially for what they charged, like ten dollars oh well, sure that's, they're not making a uh killing on that.

Speaker 1: 7:43

Well listen, here's the thing. You know, when you're talking like knish, you're talking hot dog stuff like that. I haven't had a manhattan special in a million years and I feel like you know, sometime this coming week I'm gonna have to go off on a search. You know I need to like quench the uh, the, the craving.

Speaker 2: 8:01

Yeah, you know. What you need to wash it down with is an egg cream. I can't believe you didn't even you had a yoohoo instead of an egg cream, that's what.

Speaker 1: 8:07

But I was a kid, that's what I used to get at the, at the, at the cards man, I used to get a yoohoo a kid you know, and he would, my uncle would get like a manhattan special or whatever, and where I would get a mellow. Yeah, that's, that's what I had and I dig it. But anyhow, speaking of all of this hot dogs and New York street food, I think we should usher in our guest today. Yeah, I think so too. Dan Rossi, welcome to the program. Glad to be here. Thank you kindly.

Speaker 1: 8:39

Yeah, we had you and I had a long conversation a couple of weeks ago, kind of talking about your, your rise, if you will, in this you know hot dog street cart world over there, and then fall and then rise again and I think I think the story is incredible and I kinda I do have questions here for you. But before we jump into questions, if you could give kind of an airplane view of who you are, where you came from and you know how you, how you got into the food cart business, hot dogs specifically, that would be terrific.

Speaker 3: 9:16

Oh, wow. Well, you know, I'm a native New Yorker, I'm an Italian American and right out of high school I went into the Marine Corps. I did a few tours in Vietnam and when I came out cart and after I was done he felt better and he didn't want it. So I was stuck with this hot dog cart and I said you know, let me try and sell it. And as soon as I put it for sale I sold it. So that became my business. I started to, you know, at home and night I would build a cart. When it was done I'd sell it. I ended up being the largest hot dog company in the city's history. Within about 10 years I had 500 carts on the street, which is a pretty amazing feat.

Speaker 3: 10:08

But because of my background as a veteran and pretty much an advocate for veterans, the city went ahead and removed all the vets from Midtown Manhattan, and it was just, if you saw it, at the time there were only about 20, 30 guys doing it. So I got involved. What decade was that? Oh, this is the 90s. Okay, they went ahead and I got involved. It took a little while, but I managed to reverse the law and because I did it, I had to be punished, they told me, because a lot of bigwigs were behind this thing and they went ahead and they actually passed a law and took away my business, which was another amazing thing and that kind of dragged me out.

Speaker 3: 10:54

You know, I went from owning a beautiful home in Greenwich, connecticut If you know anything about Greenwich, it's one of the finest places to live in the country and I ended up living in a van with me and my wife. So I went ahead and I said what are we going to do? We went from nothing to having a great life, having less than nothing now. So I said you know what? I'm going to? Gonna sell hot dogs. And I went to help out a vet in front of the vet who was having trouble and he was a very disturbed guy, you know ptsd and all that and he just gave up and I said I was had my youngest daughter with me and I said you know what? I'm gonna get a card and I'm gonna start doing this and I didn't want to upset the the apple cart. You know, I had enough of that politics stuff. I didn't want to be involved with any of it.

Speaker 3: 11:49

So I didn't actually go in front of the man. I went a couple blocks away and as soon as I set up they started to harass me. The police and you know so I told. I said, after about 40 times, I said, look now, every time you come here I'm going to move 10 feet closer to the men. And they did as they were writing tickets to me. I moved the pushcart. I mean it became comical because none of these tickets ever stuck. I wasn't doing anything wrong. And then, finally, I ended up right in front of the men. I said what are you going to do? And they arrested me. That was the best day of my life, to be honest with you.

Speaker 1: 12:24

Well, wait a minute, wait a minute. I can't let you get passed on that. So you get arrested. It's the best day of your life why?

Speaker 3: 13:15

Because what happened was there were quite a few illegal vendors there and when they saw me get arrested, they just scattered. And when they saw me get arrested, they just scattered. And when I came back the next day, no one bothered me. So I says I know I was, I wasn't breaking any laws. I says now I got them, now I know I can be here, and that started to establish me as the, as the hot dog king. I mean it just, it just took off. And you know, one thing led to another. This, 18 years later, I'm still here, I'm still getting harassed, I'm still getting tickets, I'm still getting shut down. But well, it's all nonsense, it's just the smoke and mirrors that they're doing so what was that?

Speaker 1: 13:58

what was the challenge that you had? So, when you transitioned from manufacturing to actually becoming a food vendor, what kind of hiccups were you experiencing there?

Speaker 3: 14:11

My goal always was, even when I built cars, I always tried to make the best I could do and the thing we were having here was just what hard love to sell and how to sell it. Because in my time because I had hundreds in my time I had carts but I never actually physically vended. You know, there's a big difference between building a cart and putting it on the street and actually being behind that cart. So, but it didn't take me long to get into the knack. I kind of enjoyed it, but the thing was to find the best thing. Now you guys talk about the dirty water hot dog. Well, but the thing was to find the best thing.

Speaker 3: 14:45

Now you guys talk about the dirty water hot dog. Well, that's a thing of the past, to be honest with you. There was a time when every hot dog manufacturer made a hot dog with a casing on it so the water wouldn't affect it as bad. But now all the hot dogs have no casing. So if you went ahead and put a package of these uncased hot dogs in water, some of them shrink, some of them get big.

Speaker 3: 15:07

I mean, it's a different hot dog from what you guys remember when you were younger, and so the best way to cook a hot dog is on a flat grill. So that's what I did I built the flat grill and then the next thing to do was to find the right hot dog. So you just can't go and buy a specialty hot dog because you have to have consistency, you know you have to be. This has to be reliable. So I went through every single brand of hot dog that we could buy locally and you know that's common to buy to find the right one. And once we hit on that, that was the home run. We found the perfect hot dog to put on a flat grill.

Speaker 1: 15:45

Well, let me ask you. Let me ask you this, dan when you found a hot dog, everybody's buying a different brand by and large. Or is there a handful of go-tos, or is everybody looking for that next new one, or?

Speaker 3: 16:00

how does that work? If you walk down the street and you saw a hot dog cart, it has two different umbrellas with two different names of hot dogs. Never, never, look at the umbrella and assume that you're going to buy that hot dog. Most vendors buy whatever they can find that's cheap. Some of them are beef, some of them are anything. I don't know what they are. But, believe me, don't get fooled by that. And it's a bad thing, because some of these companies are pretty good companies and then they find out somebody's eating something that's not what they think they are. I don't know if I can mention names, but if you went to buy a certain brand, unless you see the package of those hot dogs, you're probably not getting it. They'll put anything in front of you.

Speaker 1: 16:40

But there's oversight to that too. No.

Speaker 3: 16:43

There's no oversight.

Speaker 2: 16:46

I mean, if they're doing it illegal, they're not going to be able to get anything right.

Speaker 3: 16:49

Yeah, what are they doing illegal?

Speaker 2: 16:52

Right. No, I'm saying if they're a street vendor and they're doing it illegal, right, and they're not set up there. Like you said at the beginning, when they busted people and saw you get busted, they all fled because they were doing illegal like vending.

Speaker 3: 17:08

Yeah, they're not gonna, they're not gonna care what's it, what's in the hot dog they're gonna buy?

Speaker 2: 17:10

this one, like you said. So there's no truth they don't.

Speaker 3: 17:15

They don't care about anything.

Speaker 1: 17:16

All they care about is grabbing your dollar and and handing it to you so then, what makes your hot dogs different or better than than the competitor?

Speaker 3: 17:24

well, there's the consistency. If you bought a hot dog today and bought one six months from now, it's exactly the same thing, and the grill does it. When I said that they don't have casings anymore, if you put it on a flat grill, you get a crunch with this hot dog. So that's it. You've got the taste. You've got the same hot dog, you know. So that's it. You've got the taste, you got the same hot dog. People come from us two, three years ago, dan, you know, and it's the same thing. That's matters. Not that they come today and they taste the one kind of hot dog come tomorrow or something else, you know, and our relationship with the people, I mean, we just have a great relationship with the, you know, the people who live around here, and that's a hard thing to do because this is a pretty wealthy people, you know, and they, they buy me all the time.

Speaker 1: 18:12

You know, they almost like my do you ever get? Customers that do you ever get customers that you know have yours? They pay X amount of dollars, but then there's a guy you know another cart you know 30 yards, 50 yards away, something like that, and they undercut you by a buck or 50 cents. Do you get a lot of that? Is there that sort of oh it just.

Speaker 3: 18:34

It's just the opposite. In front of the museum, here it's all tourists. So we have a price list. So you're always going to pay what's on the price list. But if you go you might pay 30 bucks for a hot dog. They, they charge you by your look. So if they think you're, you're, you're a visitor, you're a tourist, you're gonna get hit, you know. But you know, and that that's the way it is. It's never undercut. Forget about undercut. They're. They're overcharging these people by a ton so then, what's the?

Speaker 1: 19:02

difference between being in front of the met and then, you know, being, uh, you know, blocks and blocks away, maybe just more towards residential or something like that, when you're not.

Speaker 3: 19:14

you go to residential and you're getting the people who live there. They're New Yorkers, they're not going to fall for a $30 hot dog, but you get somebody from China who doesn't even know what's going on. You know, I've seen eight year old-old Chinese kids walk up to us for $100 bills. Now you can imagine what would happen if they went to these other guys. You know, I'll tell you the truth. They just watch you. They take that shot that you're a tourist and then they hit you Because there's no price list.

Speaker 3: 19:45

And once they hand you that and you take it and they say $10 or $15, you end up paying it. You know that's insane, Some people I can't tell you how many times I see a hot dog thrown at one of these guys or fights break out. It's, it's almost everyday occurrence because they picked on the wrong person. See what you're going to do is you've got to set up a camera to catch all that reality tv man absolutely so is is it safe to say, dan?

Speaker 1: 20:12

is it safe to say and put send it to me, you send it to me, I'll take care of everything, okay? So is it safe to say that location matters? Is that like the, in your opinion, top three most important things for a new York City food vendor? Is it location or quality Location?

Speaker 3: 20:32

location, location, and then you got to follow the quality. But you have to be in a good spot, you know. I'll tell you the truth. I know some vendors that are in areas that you would never believe made money. But they have a consistent customer base, they make a good product and that, but they're not getting the tourists. They're getting the guy who works in a factory or in a building, the janitors and the doormen and all that, and it's almost as if they could tell what they're going to make by the end of the day before they even start the day, because they see the same people every day Go ahead.

Speaker 3: 21:06

I'm sorry, go ahead, no ahead no, but when I am, it's not that way. You know, we have our regulars, but it's nothing compared to what they have. They, they're, we're 99 tourists, they're 99 percent. Uh, you know regulars and that's the world of difference.

Speaker 1: 21:24

And if they get that location, they're great, they do great you know, I think that's what's interesting is, you can get somebody who makes I don't know half a million bucks a year and somebody who makes 40 grand a year and everybody's eating hot dogs on the street.

Speaker 3: 21:41

That can happen Really lucrative locations in the city. A problem with us is we do fine in the summer, but Labor Day just passed we went down 25% in two weeks, that's it. And it'll come back up, you know, in October. But that one month kind of says we go down into a valley and then we start to climb back up again, but then by January we're back down in the valley again. But locations in Midtown where it's the workers, there's no slump. You know a coffee cart in Midtown. They know what they're going to make every day of the week. They see the same people every day of the week and if they can survive on that they're doing great.

Speaker 1: 22:24

You know how do you hold your spot at the Met. How do you?

Speaker 2: 22:29

hold your spot at the Met. How do you?

Speaker 1: 22:30

keep that same position.

Speaker 3: 22:32

Well, what we do is that night we clean the cart and bring the cart back, and then I park my van across the street and I go to sleep. And I've been doing that for 12 years.

Speaker 1: 22:41

There's no other way to do that, huh.

Speaker 3: 22:44

I have to be here overnight and keep an eye on the cart. This is a lifestyle. It's lousy, let me tell you, I would much rather be sleeping in a nice bed, you know.

Speaker 1: 22:57

But well, expand on that a little bit, dan, because so you had this life right before you were in Connecticut. Yep, things were awesome. This life right before you were in Connecticut, things were awesome. And then you kind of you know, let's just say, you get kicked in the belly and you know, here you are, you're sleeping in your van to hold a spot for the cart at the Met.

Speaker 3: 23:25

I mean you're making money, right. I mean it's a good living, it has to be. Here's the way it works. We'll do fine in that six months and then I have to have a little cushion to get us through the winter. So it is that way. It's survival more than making money. To be honest with you, I'm not a young kid anymore. I'm going to be 75. And there are too many more opportunities.

Speaker 3: 23:43

I can't go in a shoe metal shop and go bang metal. Those days are gone. But I fell into this. I actually got trapped into this because of the illegals. Again, right now, in front of the Met there are 10 carts and well, I'm legal. The rest of them are not legal and the city is complacent with them. You have no idea how bad the city is right now in vending. There are more illegal vendors in the city than I've ever heard of and there's nothing they do about it. There's absolutely zero enforcement. They've given up on enforcing vending and what saves me is the fact that we have bus stops and things. That's the one thing you can't do. You can't go on a bus stop or a taxi stand and we're like a little oasis know that, so there's nothing immediate. I got one car maybe 30 feet from us, but the rest of a half a block away, so that saves me. But we're talking about maybe myself and one other car around the entire central park illegal and the rest are not and they're not going to touch these people.

Speaker 1: 24:44

It's just the way it is right now that's kind of like what's going on with the, with the hotels where the illegals are actually staying at hotels. I saw some stuff about that and a friend of mine actually visited New York a couple of months ago and inadvertently stayed at one of those hotels and was genuinely fearful of his life. It's bad.

Speaker 3: 25:09

Yeah, it's bad, yeah, it's bad. One of the problems is we had a lot of newcomers come in. You know I don't call people illegals. We had a lot of newcomers come in and they can't work because you have to be able to work legally in the city. You know, like when I hire someone, I have to make sure I can put them on the books and the city doesn't allow them to work legally. So what do they do? They either end up I don't know, that's not that much crime, but it's a bad atmosphere but a lot of them end up going on the street vending. You'll see blankets all over the street with them selling knockoff jewelry or handbags or hats or whatever they're doing. And we're talking about a lot of them. We're not talking about a few people, we're talking about hundreds.

Speaker 1: 25:56

Is it worse now over there than it was in the 70s, early 80s?

Speaker 3: 26:01

I was there. I started in the late 70s and early 80s. It was bad. It's five times worse now. That's how bad it was. It's really bad If you go down into Midtown, where you never saw these people. They're lined up toe-to-toe a whole block long. It's in the downtown square. You don't even want to go to Times Square. I mean, it's just all over the place.

Speaker 1: 26:24

And that never, I mean, you're a man in the know, like you're there. You're your boots on the ground, so to speak. What's the fix? How do they fix this?

Speaker 3: 26:34

Is there a fix? One thing would help if the city allowed these people to work legally, then they'd get hired. There's plenty of work. There's plenty of places looking for people to work. That would help. And the second thing is enforcement. The police wiped their hands of vending. They took them out of vending. The health department doesn't do a thing and what they do is they put vending in the department of sanitation's hands. What the hell do they know about vending to sanitation people? That was the biggest joke in the world. They need some enforcement. You know they need some enforcement. You know, not Gestapo style thing, but you have to go down and say, listen, guys, you can't be here, and then that'll do it. You know, start knocking them away. Especially, I got one right outside the pickup truck right now selling you know fruits, you know, and she's got a little basket and she's doing it. They got hundreds of those people here. You got to give them an opportunity to work. That would be the big deal.

Speaker 1: 27:39

There's no food inspectors that come through to make sure that there's some. You know standard operating procedures being enacted, cleanliness, basic stuff.

Speaker 3: 27:46

The health department is told if they're not permitted, keep walking. Wow, that's their word. Told if they're not permitted, keep walking, that's their word. If they're not permitted, keep walking. They could come to me and they can go down the list. I mean, there's a long list and because I'm permitted, I'm licensed. But to them, who are you talking to? What name are they giving you? It's a waste of time. And then you know, you give them a ticket. They throw it away. What is that? But you give me a ticket and I have to battle it. You know there's a whole different ballgame. There's just no oversight at all, nothing, zero.

Speaker 3: 28:23

I'll give you an example. We did a little special for a company a few weeks ago and they covered my cart completely with their advertising. We've given away hot dogs for them. And right next, right next to my car, is my daughter's car. So inspector comes, he goes to my daughter and we have like banners that come down off the umbrella, the the advertisement, little panels, and it was blocking the permit. So he gave her a ticket for blocking the permit.

Speaker 3: 28:51

This is so ridiculous, five feet away and my permit is completely covered. And he didn't even. And my daughter said well, what about my father and he said no, no, no, I'm here for you. So the health department only goes to a court, or it goes after the complaint 50 people could be there breaking the law, but it only goes to a cart. Or it goes after the complaint 50 people could be there breaking the law, but it only goes to that one person that they got the complaint for. And then they walk away, they close their eyes. Everything else has happened. It's, it's just amazing. Especially when you're legitimate, it really turns your, your stomach, you know, knowing that, well, this is going on and these clowns are coming here just to bother me and, uh, that's so well, you know, I say I'm used to it, but I'm almost used to it no, I mean, I don't know.

Speaker 1: 29:33

I don't know how you would get used to that. So if the community you know supports, supports the. You know the cart and you know other carts or whatever, does the community not care about what you know, what they're eating or potentially eating, or the you know health risks or anything like that? Can't the community make a stand, open their mouth, do something?

Speaker 3: 29:54

To who?

Speaker 1: 29:56

The health department? I guess no.

Speaker 3: 29:59

You got it. Have a good time. You know it's funny. There's actually an organization that advocates for vendors, but the guy running it is part of the black market and if you call 314 to make a complaint, send it to him.

Speaker 2: 30:21

All it's going to take is a group of people getting sick from a vendor, and that's when the phone's going to hit the fan. That's the only thing.

Speaker 3: 30:28

That's different. But who wants to see people get sick? I understand that, but that's when the fan. That's the only thing that's different. But who wants to see people get sick? I understand that, but that's that's nobody no, that's why we why you have to be permitted. The city waits for people for something bad to happen before they act. When they can resolve it before anything bad happens, they don't do it. There's nobody in charge that's going to take that responsibility. It's not happening.

Speaker 1: 30:50

I mean I was shocked when we spoke the first time, dan, and you were kind of laying some breadcrumbs down for me with some of this info, and I'm actually more shocked today, to be honest with you, just for you to kind of go deeper in it a little bit and hearing it, it's shocking. It's New York City for crying out loud.

Speaker 3: 31:12

It's New York City and people just don't see it. I don't know, they just don't. You get complaints. Back in the 90s, I mean, there was a war going against vendors. They did every possible war in the world to control us. But that was legal vendors. Everyone involved was legal, so it's easy to enforce laws against legal people. It's impossible to enforce a law against an illegal person.

Speaker 3: 31:38

They're already breaking the law law against an illegal person, they're already breaking the law. You know when, when they told me that, that the inspector said look, if it's got no permit, we're told to keep going. So that told you everything, that.

Speaker 2: 31:51

That told you the whole story well, they don't have any right, they don't have any jurisdiction. It's like they only have a shutdown. They can't remove you the the law, the police to do that correct? If I'm not mistaken, yeah, so no.

Speaker 3: 32:05

The only one who can shut you down is the health department. At the end of May just to give you an example of how things happened they came to my push cart. What happened was about five carts set up in a bus stop not too far from me and they started a big ruckus. So the inspectors came down and the health department goes up to my car. He looks at the permit and he says this is a. This permit's not allowed on the fox property. And I looked, we looked at what. Are you crazy? We're here 18 years.

Speaker 3: 32:36

My permit happens to probably be the oldest permit in New York City. It was issued in 1983. So he scraped the permit off my cart, shut me down, put a big poster on my cart, you can't work. So I called up his supervisor and the supervisor was playing stupid. And then for almost four weeks they wouldn't allow me to work, until finally I started to talk a little tough and then they reversed themselves. Oh, the permit is fine, I says. But I almost lost four weeks of work. And now you tell me the permit is fine. If you knew the permit was fine before you scraped it. You know, I said you know. These are the kind of games they play. And then you know what can you do? You end up going to court. I'm gonna end up going to court for this. I've been in court so many times in my life. I don't want to go to court, but I have to do it.

Speaker 1: 33:29

You know I mean you're doing a service or you're feeding people for crying out loud, and these guys are breaking your balls, like apparently, seemingly for no reason, and you know, unless you're squirting ketchup on the, on the sergeant's tie or something like that, Like you know the fact that they're out, it's like they're out to get you.

Speaker 3: 33:43

Well, I'm the key. I'm the key of the whole veteran vending issue. I'm the only one who hasn't given in to their games that they're playing. I refuse to go by what they're saying because it's all unlawful and once they get me, that's the end of the vets in the city. And once they get me, that's the end of the vets in the city. They're going to completely remove any privileges we have and just throw us in with the other vendors and that's the end of us. So they know getting me is like a home run and they've been trying to do this for years. I mean, I can't tell you how many times I've been ticketed and gone to court and they don't care about the decisions that the courts bring out. I actually argued the case in the appellate court and won, and the city said so what you won, we don't care what the judges say. They do what they want. They will take you to court again.

Speaker 1: 34:33

It's just that's the problem, and that specifically has to do with your permit is related to being a disabled vet, right.

Speaker 3: 34:40

No, it doesn't matter what permit I have. I'm the disabled vet and the state protects me. See, that's the problem. We go under state laws, not city laws. We have to get a license from the city, but the state oversees us and we have our own set of laws. And what they tried to do is, when they kicked all the vets out of midtown years ago and I got them back, they came up with a law for them, for the people selling like general merchandise hats and trinkets and stuff, and tried to tie it into a food vendor. And that's one of the things we went to court for and we won. We're food vendors, we're not selling hats.

Speaker 3: 35:18

You know, what they told me was they want me to give up my permit and get a license to sell hats and then they'll give me back a different permit. I said but you want me to get a license that doesn't allow me to sell food. He said, yeah, don't worry about that. I said, yeah, I am worried about that. What am I? A moron or something? It was so stupid. And then finally they gave in. But that's what they're expecting me to do, and I'm the only one who hasn't done it. The other vets did it because they don't care, but I do care. You know we all see things differently and you know I've been through much. I've been through too much with the city and the government and the law, then been through too much with the city and the government and the law. That I that what I know, I'm right and when the courts back me up I'm going to stand by what's right. I'm not going to just bend to them because that's what they want.

Speaker 1: 36:09

So you've actually. So I, I saw your, I saw the, your feature on netflix. You know, what is it? Uh, usa street food or something like that, and you were one of the, uh, one of the features. I thought it was a, I thought it was pretty great. And as we're, as we're talking you know I do a lot of formulating on the spot, right. So you're, we spoke, I already have opinions, we're talking and now those, you know, everything kind of changes a little bit and it, you know, comes out into the podcast. You, you really wear the New York hotdog King on your sleeve Like that's, that's a part of your personality, right?

Speaker 1: 36:48

I mean because you know, like you said a second ago, like hey, I'm the last one If they, if they, take me down, then the whole thing goes away. You're kind of like you're. You're out there sitting on on your proverbial throne, the cart, and you're sitting up there and you're going to run this to the end, huh.

Speaker 3: 37:04

Well, I'm going to go to the end. I figure I'm going to be turning 75. I've got 15 more years. We'll see how it turns out.

Speaker 1: 37:12

How does that work? You said, your daughter has a cart next to you, right?

Speaker 3: 37:19

Yeah, my daughter Elizabeth. She served in the Marines too. In fact we had to go to court to get a permit. I mean, that's how ridiculous it was. When the state says you have to give it, they said we don't care what the state says, we still have to go to court and get it. And the reason that I have to have her next to me is because if I didn't, there would be an illegal right next to me, is because if I didn't there would be an illegal right next to me, they'd be here in a second. That's why I sleep here every night. You know, in a minute. And then I actually had one police captain says look, we'll get rid of you before them. And when you hear a police captain tell you that, you say you know, I'm on my own, I have to defend myself and that's what I've been doing. It's not a nice thing.

Speaker 1: 38:00

So I mean, if you don't want to answer, you don't have to, but are there. I mean, do things get a little rough over 90 overnight hours or anything like intimidation or something like that.

Speaker 3: 38:10

Yeah, well, they did in the beginning. You know we had some. I remember once the five or six guys came and they went into the. I was across the street by the time I got back across the street to the car to chase them away. They were trying to wreck the car, scrape the decal off A few times. There were guys who thought they were tough. Well, you have no idea how tough I can be. I don't take crap from anybody. We had to face them down. Let them know that we're going to go to a level that they don't want to go to Street stuff you got to sometimes turn into.

Speaker 1: 38:46

That. Is that the same motivation, that fire, is that what brought you to write your book?

Speaker 3: 38:53

Oh yeah, you know, what happened was so many things went on I mean fighting to build the company in the beginning and the hold on to the company and I bought a nice house. You know, we got out of a little house, bought a nice place and what it was was the abuse that I saw people doing against these disabled vets, and I could never handle abuse. I never allowed anybody to abuse anybody when I'm around. You know, there were certain things that triggered me and when I found out that the richest people in the city were the ones abusing these men, I said you know, come on, guys, all you have to do is help them. You know we're not talking about a thousand people, there's a few people. And they dug in and I dug in and you know I remember when one of the mayor's people said back away from the vets and I said it's not going to happen.

Speaker 3: 39:43

And he said, well, we're going to bankrupt you. I said you do what you got to do. I said you know I can guarantee you that any combat vet out there who's carried as many wounded and dead as I have is never going to ever turn their back on a vet, never. It's not going to happen. It's in our DNA and that was it. And you know, when I say I'm the last, it's because in my mind, if I'm gone, the veterans are gone, you know, and maybe something will turn around and somebody will listen to me and finally straighten this out. But you know, I have to do what I have to do.

Speaker 1: 40:18

So if you were going to give. Let's just say that there's a vet out there or somebody it could be anybody, including a veteran and they want to kind of get into the fold with you, or they want to have a cart, but they want to do it the right way. I mean, is there advice that you would give somebody, Tell them to don't do it at all, or what would you do?

Speaker 3: 40:36

When my daughter came back from you know, and got out of the Corps, the battalion was in Brooklyn and a lot of the men that were there you know they were coming out and they've done you know two, three tours in Iraq and Afghanistan. So they came back wobbly. You know, when you come back out of combat you're not normal. I hate to tell you that you don't fit in. And I must have had a half dozen guys work with me. I bring them in, calm them down. They start to get readjusted and I said it's time for you to go Now. Go find something you can do. And I did that to at least a half a dozen guys.

Speaker 3: 41:09

When I started my initial sheet metal business hired all Vietnam vets because nobody would hire them. You have to be one of them to understand them. You have to go through what they're going through to understand how to work around it. The only problem I have now, after the pandemic that all stopped. I guess we don't have the financial means anymore to try. We don't have that extra spot for the guy. I had a vet call my daughter the other day. I hear your dad will hire my daughter. He said you come on down. He never came. But we said you come on down and we'll try and fit you in Squeeze a day, two days, whatever we can do. If you want to learn how to get a permit, we'll take you to court and get a permit. If you want a cart, I hope you build it.

Speaker 3: 41:54

When I started my company, a vet walked in the shop. He got the cart for free a disabled vet. I never once would take a penny off a guy. Give him a shot. There weren't that many of them at the time. Now that's all gone. That structure, that base. I can't do it now because of the financial situation we're in, but I would love to do it. I would actually love it.

Speaker 3: 42:21

In fact, the city last year came up with a program that was actually backed up by an individual to help veteran small businesses and they would give them a $20,000 grant. So I went and I never heard. I didn't know what a pitch was. So I went and did a pitch, like I'm talking to you. That was the pitch, you know.

Speaker 3: 42:43

Everybody was coming up with charts and all this and I said what the hell is this, you know? And I walked into a room and there was about 30 people in there. So I went and I told them who I was and what I intended to do and I said my problem is the cards that we have are 10 years old. They're falling. Partner, I don't have the money to build new cars. So I got it I mean the Department of Small Business Service and especially the Department of Veterans Affairs that they have in the city now the guy who's running it is this guy, james Hendon the best thing that ever happened to veterans in New York City and I got it and I built two new cars for me and my daughter. And I told him you know, there was a time when I would be the one that would be doing this. No one had asked me. I did it, but I can't do it anymore and then people helped me. So the good that I gave out some of it came back to me, you know.

Speaker 1: 43:35

So I don't know I mean listen. You know I'm just listening to you and you know I don't know what we can do. You know we could talk about it offline, but maybe we could try to, you know, plug some resources or connections or something like that, networking to. You know, just throw the hat in the ring with you guys.

Speaker 3: 43:57

Well, there aren't too many guys to do it. I mean, you know, if you're right now in new york city, there are probably only five disabled vets on food five. That's it. Not that I didn't get everyone a permit, because when I broke the broke the door down to get my daughter a permit, I was able to get all the all the disabled vets a permit, but they they went ahead and took them and leased them. Being able to do this business a a disabled person is extremely hard. They need a lot of support and these guys didn't have a support system. So they went and they got the permit, leased it illegally. Everything is illegal now. Everything is illegal and that was the end of them.

Speaker 3: 44:36

So when I had my company, there was a system. There were two other companies that were owned by vets. We joined forces to help the vets. You know, we had commissary space for them. I built the cars for them, we taught them. That was different, but they took that away from us.

Speaker 3: 44:54

The city was so against the veterans that they actually, you know, basically they put me out of business just because I was a disabled vet. That was it and I was helping them. That was it. That's all gone. There's absolutely no effort in New York City to help us. Nobody's going to help us, and I've been to the politicians down there. They don't even listen to you. So you know. But the way to do it is to do it on my own. If I could, I would have a shop, I would have a little commerce area and I would hire these guys, just like I did before they teach them how to build carts If they want to be a vendor. Teach them how to be a vendor, put them on the street, make them independent. Not that they work for me, that they work for themselves. That was the whole goal for this to get the guys back out there into the world and learn to do things again.

Speaker 2: 45:44

You know, like I said, first off, I want to thank you for your service and your sacrifice and your family sacrifice for doing what you do. Yeah, second off, I think one of the biggest things with our, with our reach. I think it's important that we actually put the shine of light on things, because you know the old saying, we have old sayings for reasons. Right, the squeaky wheel gets the oil, and the more that we squeak about this, the more that things need to change.

Speaker 2: 46:12

If the city of new york is doing things against veterans, and what are you doing? Because these are the people that give us the freedoms and and after yesterday, what we celebrated Patriot Day, which affected New York greatly and those 3,000 people that perished. It's disgusting to hear this stuff like this. There's different people out there that are doing things. My brother-in-law is somebody big in the veterans affairs and dealing with PTSD and it's shocking to hear a city such as New York, as great as it should be, snuffing out for lack of better terminology, snuffing out veterans. You know the restaurant industry in itself, we seem to be the one that's the light of the moths, and the moths are the misfits and the pirates and specifically those that have gone abroad to fight in combat. Because we have the hierarchy and I've worked with so many different veterans and I know I don't know from ptsd of being in battle, but I know from seeing them and what they go through I'm kind of disgusted with new York right now. As a matter of fact, yeah.

Speaker 2: 47:24

Yeah, and I think, unfortunately, you can't manage your business and then attack the politicians, because you have to have that quality of life plus have the business, and you're protecting that business because, for crying out loud, the police officers are not doing their job.

Speaker 1: 47:38

quite frankly, I think it comes down to money.

Speaker 3: 47:42

They were told to give up on it. They were told to give up on it.

Speaker 1: 47:45

The police, yeah, I mean in terms of the resistance to fight this. It comes down to money and, you know, I have a feeling that we might know some folks who are, you know, veteran-focused that we might be able to connect with and maybe figure something out there. We got to look into it a little bit. I mean, if you're not a veteran you should be.

Speaker 2: 48:05

You should be upset, because these are people that have actually given us the freedom, maintain our freedom, and that this is what's going on to our veterans. It's disgusting, absolutely disgusting. We send boys to war and yet they come home and we don't have any means to integrate them, like you said, because they're not ready to go back in the public, because they're in that combat mode and they're in PTSD mode, and I understand that. But this is an opportunity for us to integrate them back into the society, to leave a normal life. It's quite disgusting.

Speaker 3: 48:41

Well, I gave it my best shot. I know I helped a lot of people, I mean especially when I first started.

Speaker 2: 48:48

We appreciate that.

Speaker 3: 48:49

These guys, you know the Vietnam vets. They had it bad. I mean we did. I mean I remember going to VA to help and they said we're not helping you guys. You're just not credible. I mean, imagine that. And I walked out and I said, to hell with you, I'll do it on my own. I'll do it on my own and I did. But you know, if you read my book, you'll see where I went down into that valley and I just barely got out of it and, by the way, the name of the book, folks, is the New York hot dog king, from rags to riches, to less than rags.

Speaker 1: 49:22

I said that correctly.

Speaker 3: 49:24

Yeah, right on the button. All right, get it from Amazon.

Speaker 1: 49:26

You can get it. I was just going to say that you can get it on Amazon. Check it out. Listen, dan, I appreciate you coming on the show today. If people want to find out more about you, they can. What on Instagram? And why hot dogs? Right? Yep, yeah, you got it perfect. Let's, uh, let's, let's, let's keep the uh, let's keep the conversation going, dan, and you know we'll catch up. There's a couple of people I want to introduce you to to see if there's some synergies there that maybe you know. Maybe there's some some backup.

Speaker 2: 49:58

I actually might have some big time reporters, but shut the light on them.

Speaker 3: 50:03

Yeah, you, you, you can't make a stand by yourself all the time. You know, sometimes you need some backup. That's good, my daughter. Well, so we got you know that that's, that's hardly going to do anything, just being her. Well, sometimes you need a voice. You do anything, just being her. Sometimes you need a voice, a third voice, because if you know anything about politicians, you speak to them twice. They don't want to speak to you a third time.

Speaker 1: 50:27

Well, we're going to see what we can do for you, ben, and we're about to. We're coming up on a hard break here. Appreciate you being on the show today. Thank you very much, jeff, john. You did great today. As always, we are out.